Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Forward Together podcast. I'm Rick Muma, president of Wichita State University.
Today my guests are Shocker women's basketball coach Terry Nooner and Shocker volleyball coach Chris Lamb. Coach Nooner is heading into his third season at Wichita State, and he came to us with decades worth of Division 1 experience. We're looking forward to great things from his team when the season begins in October. And Coach Lamb is in the middle of his 26th season with shocker volleyball. He leads the American Conference in career Wins, and in 2024, shocker volleyball swept the conference championship. And I was there. Welcome to the show, Coach Lamb and Coach Nooner.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: All right. How are you guys doing today?
[00:00:52] Speaker C: Happy to be here.
[00:00:53] Speaker D: Happy to be here.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: Thanks for having us.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure you all are in the thick of lots of different things right now. For you, Chris, getting, you're in the middle of your season now, and Terry, I know you're preparing started. You told me earlier today that today is the first official practice day and you're all in full swing.
[00:01:15] Speaker D: Yes, sir.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: So, Chris, why don't we start with you or.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Excuse me, Coach.
[00:01:20] Speaker C: I got this.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Tell me how your season's going.
[00:01:25] Speaker C: Eight and four on a record. Still searching for things. We just wrapped up our non con preseason.
I think my schedule is about a B. I'm hoping a few teams have good years to help us with our rpi, as we say in our neck of the woods or in college athletics.
I think we're three and one in those matches. I thought would be a kind of a coin toss when the schedule came out, so feel pretty good about it. But we let one get away. We could have been 4, 0, lost two days ago to Villanova after having swings to win the match. And that was a tight fought match. But, you know, we've learned a lot along the way. Thank goodness we're still healthy, but we have a few question marks that we got to answer as conference play begins this weekend. But all in all, I'm pretty happy with it.
[00:02:13] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, it seems like things are going pretty well out of the gate. It's a lot of positive. There's some good vibe stuff that I'm reading and hearing about.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: So, yeah, I think the girls have been terrific together. Coaching staff, I mean, I think we're very functional. I feel like we're making progress, learning, getting better. But, you know, every time you play one of these teams, you get tested and it gets revealing in a hurry. A lot of things you can predict. You kind of know what the obstacles are going to be when there's a team good enough to put that kind of pressure on you sometimes. Sometimes you're beating teams and you're not as challenged as much. So you go home and you're not at the drawing board. But then you play the Kansas's or the more physical teams, BYU on our schedule, Villanova was actually very physical and it revealed some things that kind of put you back at the drawing board and you wonder what you're going to need to do and develop as you move forward.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Well, I'm sure after 25 years, this is your 26 season, you got some tools up your sleeve.
[00:03:12] Speaker C: Yeah, well, we're trying. I mean, I mean, we're. I'm happy with what we're doing, but, you know, you still got to execute. It's like you, you kind of know what's coming, but can you get through it? And that's where we're at.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: So, Coach Nunner, you are in your. Starting your third season.
[00:03:27] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: So, and just started practice today. I know you've been practicing per the guidelines ahead of this in a more reduced fashion. So tell me what you think about your athletes and where you're going.
[00:03:41] Speaker D: I mean, we're excited about the group we have. We have 11 new players.
But, you know, back in the day, that used to be an alarming thing, but that's kind of the norm these days. But we really brought in a group that we really want to feel like the fat, you know, our core values, which is character, accountability, respect and effort and hard work. And we brought in 11 players who really kind of fit that mold. They play together, you know, they play with a lot of enthusiasm. I think it's going to be a good group that our fans are going to really like, just with, you know, the amount of effort and how hard they play and how much, you know, they work on and off the court. And so we're excited about what we have so far.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah, there seems like there's a good vibe. Yeah. And you're so positive about your athletes. Not that you aren't, Chris, but good man.
I've heard you tell stories about, you know, teaching them some life skills and not just basketball.
[00:04:33] Speaker D: Yeah. So we try to do, especially in the summertime, we're here so much. I mean, we're here from June to, you know, we start in June with a new group. So you, you only on the court four hours out the week, four hours in the weight room. So you got to do stuff to build time. So I mean, we've taken them to the dealership to learn how to change flat tires. We, you know, did media training. We did financial training. So we try to do a lot of stuff to try to build them as whole people and not just focus on basketball all the time.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, changing a flat tire is a good skill to have.
[00:05:05] Speaker D: I know it's something I had to learn myself, so.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
So, Coach Land, back to you.
You love working with the gym full of athletes, you know, taking raw talent and developing skills.
Why is that process so rewarding for you? You can just tell it by.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: Well, I mean, I've always thought of this job, you know, being about putting a lot of puzzles together. I've always liked puzzles. And, you know, you find these athletes that are talented enough, but they don't have all the experience.
It's, you know, it's right up our alley at Wichita State. I mean, you're gonna. We.
[00:05:42] Speaker D: We.
[00:05:43] Speaker C: We're better served, I think, finding young women that look the part. But we're gonna try to accelerate their volleyball.
And for me, it's like, I like building things. I like projects. And that's the more rewarding part of this job, is getting them to that finish line. And so, you know, you do the best job you can in recruiting. We all do. But, you know, I love the idea of where they might have been as high school sophomores and juniors. And then can they compare themselves to the other kids as college sophomores and juniors, maybe from their own neck of the woods? And did we catch up to them? Did we pass them? Because a lot of time, you know who these girls are, and I like to use that as a measuring stick, and I like to use that with my athletes as I measure. Measure what they're doing and show them how they've caught up to people.
And I don't know. I Just. For me, it's. That's the teaching part of this job that I like doing the most, and I keep recruiting with that in mind. So thanks for noticing, because that's what we're kind of all about.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: So Kushner, Jayla Harding, is the latest wichiton who you've recruited onto your team?
[00:06:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: And I've heard you talk about this before. Why is it so important to recruit local talent?
[00:06:57] Speaker D: I mean, I feel like, you know, being a coach, you know, in the area, I've seen so many great players from this area go off and play in all of the different conferences, you know, throughout the country. And so I feel like we have a bunch of homegrown Players here who are good enough to play and compete and who can really help us who've just kind of been overlooked. I think that's kind of like the DNA of Wichita as a city. It's a.
That we feel like we play with a chip on our shoulder and people don't look at us the same as other cities. And I think those are the type of players that I like to bring in. It's something that I kind of coach with. It's something I was as a player, like just a chip on my shoulder type player. And bringing somebody in like her who's, you know, going to be a future PA and who's academics first and she loves the city and she always wanted to be recruited by Wichita State. And so for us to give her the opportunity. She was our first kid that we was able to sign of our new 11 out of the portal. And I told the story before she made me lose my ipods because she was telling me when I was on my way to the Final Four and I was waiting on an Uber and, you know, I screaming while sitting outside waiting for her when she told me she was coming and end up got to my hotel and I left my ipods there because I got so excited about getting her. But she just really represents, you know, our city, you know, our school so well. And she's also a great basketball player.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: Well, and it's also important too to just get people to come to the games. Right.
That local fan base, I think is a good thing. And I don't know what you think about that, Chris, but I think that's also part of this.
[00:08:31] Speaker C: Well, when I first got here, it wasn't exactly like Wichita was loaded with talent that was really leaving. But little by little, club volleyball has really caught on and upgraded. And there are. There are recruitable athletes now from the area. And yeah, we would certainly like to try to keep them here. And I'm right there with Terry. I mean, man, come here, be a hometown hero. I try to sell that as often as I can.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
So I think folks may not know this about you, but you work on houses and cars and you were talking about puzzles earlier and you build training aids such as walking pads for volleyball.
Where'd you get those inventors skills?
[00:09:17] Speaker C: Well, I mean, my whole life it was sports and my garage. I mean, I just. All I did was tinker and build stuff and cars. I come from a large family and all the uncles and cousins were into cars and racing. And so working on cars was the thing. I mean, everybody was working on houses. And so little by little, I was just kind of like, well, I can do that. Well, I can do that. And neighbors are always calling me to come fix things.
But it's funny you mentioned the training tools. So I've always been building these little blocking tools for volleyball.
It seems to me that was never enough. But every one of my assistants that leaves, they always want me to make them some. So a few years ago, I actually made some before a coach's clinic, and I sold every one of them. And wouldn't you like to know that I'm meeting with Go Create tomorrow, Because my daughter has an econ class, and she wants this project, and she wants to take something to the patent office, and I'm like, well, you got this thing here, Sidney. We can literally give this a try. So the last several weeks, I've made a few. I made them a little bit shinier and more fun to look at and painted them. So I'm gonna meet Go Create tomorrow. Ken's coming up to the office. It was gonna be today, but then I had the podcast that I needed to get ready for, so I'll let you know. But, yeah, maybe I'll actually take one of these things to market, and maybe I'm onto something.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: So down in. I don't know if it's your team room or your. Like, a storage area over at Coke, there's this, like, gigantic volleyball coming out of the wall.
[00:10:49] Speaker C: Oh, that was me. Yeah.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Did you do that?
[00:10:51] Speaker C: So the girls, they gave Jim Shouse, gave us a team room, but it was just an empty wall. And I literally had seen pictures of some NFL locker rooms and team rooms, and the Miami Dolphins had a football coming out of their equipment room with a bunch of debris. And I didn't know how to make all the debris, so what I ended up with was a splat. So I literally took some foam, spray foam, built up a big blob. I made a big, giant pottery wheel that I took sandpaper, and I made it into a dome. And then Katie Niggemeyer, one of my players, had an art class here, so she and people in the art department were able to put leather around it.
And so we managed to make this giant splat, and we mounted it to the wall, and it looks like a volleyball kind of crashing into a wall in our team room.
[00:11:43] Speaker B: Is it still there?
[00:11:44] Speaker C: It's still there.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Okay, so maybe we can get the folks to take a picture of that and they can flash that on the screen.
[00:11:50] Speaker C: It's still there.
[00:11:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
So, Terry Back to you.
You've dealt with this or mentioned this earlier.
Your players often talk about the family atmosphere that you create as a coach.
So how do you do that? Where did you learn that? Just tell us a little bit more about that.
[00:12:08] Speaker D: I think for me, so, I mean, I played for Roy Williams in college.
He's one of my biggest people explain to Roy Williams. He was the head coach at Kansas.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: Most people know that I'm sorry.
[00:12:20] Speaker D: And end up leaving and going to North Carolina. He just retired a few years ago.
We still talk all the time. He still sends me letters. And he's really a big influence, not just about basketball, of course. He's one of the greatest coaches that ever coached men's basketball. But I think about the brotherhood that he created with us in the family atmosphere. Like he had a deal where he could talk about us, but he was like, nobody else outside this locker room can talk about my boys and my family.
Here I am, you know, I graduated from Kansas in 2000.
It's 2025 now, and I'm still in communication with him. I still talk to him. Like I said, I still get letters at Christmas and I still got voicemails from him since I've been coaching. When we play Charlotte, him and his wife, Ms. Wanda, came up to the game and sat behind the bench and ate the popcorn. And so when I think about what I want to be as a coach, it's not, you know, the time that kids are in college is four or five years, you know, depending on the nta, sometimes six, seven, eight years. But I think, you know, we have a chance to really make an influence on the people's lives that we bring into it. And I think that's so much more important and so much more valuable than just the time that we spend on the basketball court. So for me, it's trying to create a sisterhood. And, you know, three of the guys that I played with were in my wedding and they're my, you know, godparents and I'm their kids godparents and those kind of stuff. So I think those things are the things that you try to create, you know, when you come, you know, as a coach. And so for me, I just want to create that kind of atmosphere. I want to be a person that's in their lives, not just during these four years when I coach them, but when they're having kids and their weddings, when they're getting engaged, when they get big jobs. And so if I can be connected to them, you know, more than just the time that I'm here as a basketball coach and I think I've really done my job and that's what I try to do.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Yeah, and I think that's great that you are telling our listeners about all that because I think people who see you too, in leadership roles as coaches or me as president, they don't think about that personal aspect and who we are behind the scenes and what we do to try to make things a better place for people, or in your case, a better team and more successful team. So it's great to hear that.
So, Coach Lamb, the student experience has changed a lot in the last several years, not just in athletics, but also just across the university. We're much more concerned about whether a student long term is going to be able to find the right job and start their careers and contribute to society and then. But you put on top of all the changes in athletics over the last couple of years and requirements that the university provides.
Tell me about your view on that and how you have tried to make sure that your students have the best experience on the court and off the court.
[00:15:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, some of us have been around a while and I'll tell you that what our coaches would have thought of as distractions.
Good luck getting away from it now. I mean, there's so much coming at these young people.
They're involved with a lot. And you try to remember the part about being a student and being an athlete and how many hours a day can you devote to that with so many things going on? And I'm kind of torn. On one hand, I'd like them to just zero in and focus on this, but, you know, there's so many other aspects now that they are important to them and matter. And, you know, I find that we're sort of juggling that more than ever. You know, I feel all the time you graduate a couple of superstars, you know, every now and then you got, you know, last year we graduated two pros and people are always saying, well, how do you, how do you replace that? I'm like, well, let's not forget to celebrate that we got them to the finish line, you know, graduated, great careers, they did it right.
I don't want to forget that because we're so quick to, well, what's next? And all of that. So I don't know if I'm really answering your question, but I find, like, I have to defend, I have to make the volleyball argument sometimes. I want this to be really important to them and I want them to give it everything they have and make it a super.
Make a really big impact on their program. So on one hand, I'm trying to defend what us older guys thought, can you make it for three hours a day, all that matters, and then, you know, then go be a student and go, go work your tail off in the weight room. And then the community service that we all try to do.
So I feel like I'm defending that more than I used to with so much going on with them. I hope I'm answering your question, but that's what I see now. It's like we have to blend.
I mean, you mentioned the portal. I mean, now I feel like we're building teams year by year instead of like what we thought of as program and all of that. But, you know, good luck. Good luck fighting that one. It's kind of. This is where we're at now, and I feel like we have to blend sort of a mixture of those two things. It's like a dual responsibility to me.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Well, since you brought that up, I'd like for both of you to address that from your own perspective and your own sport transfer portal, revenue sharing, other kinds of requirements that we have as a university to provide athletes with, you know, making sure they get a degree long term. And so tell me how. Let's. Let's start with you, Chris. How has that just impacted you? You've been here for 26 years and you're still here.
How's that work for you? And then how. All these other things I just mentioned, how does that impact.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: Well, one of your first questions was about developing talent, and now it's like, will they even be around long enough to do it? And who wants to have freshmen and sophomores anymore? When these.
We played SMU last year with nine seniors, eight of which were transfers, right? So one girl walked in the door as a freshman of that group and say what you want, but they went from being a team that was just a team to now a top 20 team by going that route. So you feel like you want to do it that way, but then you're up against, you know, just a bunch of players that show up all at once, and you're like, well, good luck competing with that if you're, if you make your goal developing. And all they're doing is putting all star teams out there.
[00:18:55] Speaker D: Right.
[00:18:55] Speaker C: You know what I mean? It's like you feel like, well, you better get on board with that. So in volleyball, like football, we're a fall sport. So the biggest, most important part of that transition is literally In December, in between semesters of college, is when volleyball is the most transient.
So it's very, very different than the other seasons. The other two, fall and winter. I mean, sorry, winter and spring, where we're just going to have to really wrap our arms around that and do the best we can with it. I actually think that the transfers that we have brought in here have impacted our program in a very good way.
So that's where we're at. That's what we're trying to learn and become a part of and deal with.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Yeah, when I've heard coaches say that, you know, they can use that to their advantage, just like it can be a disadvantage.
So, Coach Nunner, what do you say about that?
[00:19:46] Speaker D: I mean, I agree with him a lot. I mean, I think it's. I mean, I think it is what it is now. And you have to figure out, as a coach and as a school, how can you adjust to this new landscape? I think for us, it's still about.
Even though, you know, you're going to be, you know, kind of renewing your team, I think it still has to be about the culture, and it has to be about how do you rebuild your culture and stand, you know, your culture each individual year. And for us, it's about the people that we're going to bring, that we're going to bring in year by year, do they fit who we are as a program and as our staff and the things that we want to represent the school. So we really do a deep dive in people that we're bringing in. We talked to their previous coach, we talked to coaches of their opponents in their conference. We talked to AAU coaches and high school coaches, and we really try to do a deep dive into the character of the people that we're bringing in. And I think if, you know, there's always going to be surprises and it's not still going to be perfect because you're dealing with people. But I think for us, if we just leaned in on to what's going to be our core values and what's going to be the character of the people that we bring in. And I think if you bring in the right people, even though they may not be there for a long period of time, you can still have some success. And that's something that we've learned in this new era. I mean, I'm happy for the players. I was a college athlete once, and, you know, for us, it was when we got our monthly check for $300 in the month, and we could go get us some Applebee's a couple extra times and things like that. Like, we were excited. We were standing in line on the first of the month to get that check. So just to see how much sports have moved forward, I remember being, you know, my number being on the NCAA video games, and my friends would call me, and I would be shooting a bunch of threes and shooting it every single time when it was me. And so just to see, you know, how things are transitioned and move forward, you know, you're happy for, you know, the growth and the developing of college athletics. And you see people really get to do great things and get to, you know, take care of their families, which. That's what you come to college for, to try to make. Put yourself in a better position than you were when you started. So, for me, we're happy for the.
For our young ladies, and we're just trying to adjust to it. We kind of lean into it. You know, we've lost some players, but, you know, those aren't players that we have hard feelings about.
I think players, for us, when they call about our kids, they understand that we've gotten them ready for whatever level they're trying to go to or that they believe is higher.
So we go get the right people that we're supposed to get, and I think if we can continue standing on the character of the people that we bring in, we're going to be in a good spot.
[00:22:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And you mentioned culture, and I think that's worth bringing up again. I talked to athletic director Kevin Saw all the time about this, and. And I do appreciate what he's done, and I know Coach Lamb has been here for a long time.
Coach Nunner, you were hired by Kevin.
[00:22:47] Speaker D: Yep.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: But the athletic department, it's night and day in terms of culture and trying to create that culture, accountability for everybody. And what do I know? You know, you guys know all this, but. But I think in the long run, that's what's going to win out, is culture, good culture. I mean, yes, we need to do some things to make sure we get championships, but culture is kind of like the baseline.
Good culture, good experience for the athletes.
[00:23:16] Speaker C: Well, I feel like that's your insurance policy.
You're not always going to have everything going so well, but if your culture is solid, it can get you through some tough times. And, you know, that's.
[00:23:29] Speaker D: It's.
[00:23:29] Speaker C: We're all riding the wave. I mean, I think in our league, I mean, I think. I think maybe four, three or four teams could win it, but everybody could come in third. So you almost feel like these matches are a coin toss and you're in one injury away. And so, man, if your culture is good, when things are getting rough, it seems to help you get through it.
[00:23:48] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: And, you know, just for the listeners, I. I'm always an.
So we have students first, right? They're students, they're in a degree program. They're wanting to graduate and go on. Some of them professionally, but not most of them. Right. So they're doing that, plus they're honing in their skills and spending a lot of time like fine arts students playing the violin or opera singers, whatever.
We forget that. That they're doing not just the work of a student, but also the work of perfecting their sport and their participation. So that's lost on I think a lot of people.
[00:24:30] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, I think they have a lot on their plate. I mean, like you said, you got for us in basketball, they're taking extra shots and they're doing extra workouts and then they're working out with us and they're with the strip coach, and then they have study hall and then they have their classes, and they have to study for their classes. And. And so, I mean, I think it's kudos for us, I think especially for our academics, our academic department. And you think about when Kevin came in and the high goals that he had as far as what our GPA is going to be. And I think we've exceeded his goals every single semester. I think for our group last year, our first semester was like the highest GPA we had had in the history of our program. The second semester was like our third highest in the history of our program. So I think it's kudos to our young ladies. I think that's stuff that people don't really understand. You know, when you. You competing at the levels they are and they miss classes and you still gotta be able to communicate with teachers and, you know, you really kind of have your hand tied behind your back sometimes with the travel demands and the missed classes and the extra communications and stuff. But I think that's why they're successful. I think that that's what makes them ready for the, you know, the workforce once they're done here, because they've had their hands in so many different things, and that's not even including community service and, you know, dealing with their family and all the extra stuff and the demands that we put on them. So kudos to our athletes and for all the stuff that they're doing as students. And not just athletes.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And you've kind of answered this next question. I was going to say. So you've had 13 players that are graduating for two seasons here and they have compiled a 3.48 GPA last spring. Yeah, the highest GPA in his program history, which you mentioned. And I think that you've answered, you know, the importance of this. Yeah, and, and, but do you anything you want to add about that?
[00:26:25] Speaker D: No, I mean, I just think it's for us. I mean, we really pride ourselves in the education. Like we, we don't play a sport where, where they have a hundred million dollar payday down the road that they're gonna be able to take care of their families. And so we're really trying to create professionals in that way. Not professional WNBA players or pro. I mean we have a few that's gonna go overseas and that kind of stuff, but at the end of the day they're gonna be in the workforce and so how can we better prepare them for that? And I think you're just happy to see that we're able to do a great job in the classroom. And we, with Lucy, our academic coach and Gretchen at the top, the things that they put in place for us and as a staff, you know, we make sure that, you know, they have academic teams and each of our coaches is meeting with them. So they'll usually meet with somebody in the beginning of the week and academics and then with one of our coaches sometime later in the week and we get progress reports. And so they have so many people that are gonna be checking on them and eyes on them. And I think it keeps us from getting to a point where, you know, you have kids at the end of the semester and you found out they haven't been doing their work throughout the semester or haven't been going to class. And so we try to make sure that we're on top of them throughout the semester. And if you go to class, if you sit in the front two rows, if you're in communication with the teachers, if you do your work and you represent our program where we think you're going to have good success and that's too a part of the people that we bring in. We want people who want to compete in the classroom and not just on the basket.
[00:27:53] Speaker B: Coach Lamb, do you have anything to add about academic.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: Well, maybe it's a, maybe it's a Division One thing.
Even grandma's gonna ask you, did you win? It's like, you know what I mean? It's like all of a Sudden everybody's gonna recognize you as a basketball player, as a volleyball player. And yeah, you're trying to remind everybody you got a whole package here. There's other things to be proud of. You mentioned music or whatever. A lot of these people have a lot of interest.
Some of the interests are different now. There's so much stuff available to these young people, but it seems like you're still gonna have to answer that question, did you win? Or how's volleyball going? Or how's basketball going? But we try to remind them we're trying to be good at a lot of things here.
I think we're doing a good job.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: With it and that's a good reminder for me to say we definitely are. You know, my main job is to make sure students stay on track and graduate.
That's what's going to create, create long term success for them individually.
But we also want championship and the university is investing solidly behind you all to make sure that we do that.
And we really appreciate all the work that you're doing that you're.
I know you're working hard, late hours, early mornings, building different things, whatever you gotta do. Yeah, yeah, we really appreciate all that.
And thank you for stopping by the podcast. We're gonna be watching your.
The whole point of doing this podcast is to get it out there to get some vibe going and get people interested in what you're doing so they can feel the momentum with you and make sure we move forward in a positive way.
[00:29:35] Speaker C: Thanks for having us. Thanks for having me.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Good to see you.
[00:29:38] Speaker C: Thanks.
[00:29:38] Speaker B: Thanks for stopping by.
[00:29:39] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:29:40] Speaker C: Good job.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us today. Be sure to follow, rate and share the podcast so others can find it too. And if you're curious to learn more about the ideas we Talk touched on, check out my book, Student Centered Innovation, a guide to Transforming Higher Education.
It dives deeper into the story of Wichita State's transformation and what it takes to lead meaningful change. Visit Wichita.edu book for more information. Join me next time when my guest will be Shocker men's basketball coach Paul Mills. Go Shockers.
[00:30:27] Speaker C: Sponsorship for the Forward Together podcast is provided by Scott Rice officeworks and the Shocker Store.
Additional thanks to Nair Amp WSU Carpentry Shop and gocreate.
