Episode Transcript
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Forward Together podcast. I'm Rick Muma, president of Wichita State University. My guest today is new to Shocker Nation. Dr. Jamarco Clark Jamarco, or sometimes referred to as Dr. J, is a leader in the world of student success and engagement, having served in leadership roles at several institutions in the Midwest, including the University of Illinois, Springfield and the University of Iowa. And perhaps most impressive is the high energy, infectious enthusiasm he has brought to the Wichita State University campus, diving headfirst into welcome fest activities, meeting with student groups and becoming a true ambassador of the Shocker spirit. Welcome to the podcast, Jamarco.
Jamarco, thanks for stopping by the podcast today.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:56] Speaker C: Yeah, you're welcome.
I want to start by asking about your background and what you or why you chose the field of student affairs in higher education. Kind of how you got into that.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:01:09] Speaker C: And maybe you can mix in some of that athletic stuff about your story.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Absolutely. So went to school, played football in Iowa, Mount Pleasant, Iowa, which we both share something connection, connection there. But went to school, wanted to be a early childhood pre K kindergarten teacher. So was headed to school to do that. Got was my up until my junior year was headed on that path. And my junior year I did observations at the local middle school and I was like, you know what, I don't think this is something that I want to do anymore. So I recall very vividly it was in the fall, I get back to practice later that day and I was like, coach, I think I'm having a midlife crisis. And I didn't really know what that meant at that time. And I said I don't want to be a teach anymore. At least I don't want to be in the classroom.
And so I was kind of spiraling, wasn't sure what I was going to do. And one of the things that wasn't clear to me was that as a first generation college student, I didn't realize you could work at the college. And so I don't know what I thought the folks were doing, but for three years I had been very involved. I was on student government with an ra. I did campus tours. So I was very involved. And so I really got to know and appreciate the work that would happen on the college campus. And so I decided as a junior that I want to be a college president someday and had no idea what that meant.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: Most people know it.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I still don't know what it means till this day, but I knew that I wanted to work in Higher ed. I knew that I wanted to really be someone who I saw the folks who were doing the work at my college were being for me. And so that ultimately led to my senior year again, had been very involved.
It was the end of my senior year right around February, we went to a small private. So we had a counselor that departed for a new job. And February, March, April is crunch time for small school admission counseling. So I was actually hired on to work as an admissions counselor before I graduated. The only thing I couldn't do was travel. And so I hosted the campus tours. I met with families one on one.
I created the itineraries for the campus visit. So that ultimately led to my first job as an admissions counselor.
Worked at Coe College in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. And then my career just kind of went from there. That next year really wanted to get back to the traditional campus and so became a hall director at a Truman State University. But that was really my gateway.
So football kind of opened the door, but thought I was going to be a teacher and then realized that I don't want to do that. And I've been working in higher ed ever since.
[00:03:45] Speaker C: That sounds like a good, kind of not so intentional, but somewhat intentional track. I think sometimes those stumbling into things are what actually makes for the better career.
So before I ask you this next question, I have to tell a little story about you.
I opened my LinkedIn one morning and this is before you came here, and I had a message from. You didn't know. You didn't know anything about. You didn't know that we had a connection in Mount Pleasant.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: It's where my sister lives.
[00:04:19] Speaker C: It's where you went to school.
And you had stumbled upon my book that I wrote last year. We possibly put it up on the slide here so people can understand what we're talking about. And had read it and you wanted to talk to me about it. And I thought, okay, that doesn't usually happen because people usually write back, hey, nice book.
Thanks for writing it. And you actually wanted to talk about it. So I messaged you back. And we set up a time, had a zoom over it, and you talked a lot about just some of the things that the book is basically about. Wichita State's transformation. And a lot of that resonated with you. And in that conversation I asked you, well, you know, we have a.
A job opening in student affairs for a vp.
Have you seen that? And he goes, no, I didn't really know anything about it. And so you looked into it and here you are, you're Our vice president for student affairs. I think that some of the best way to get connected to colleagues is those kind of conversation so. Or conversation. So what attracted you to Wichita State?
What.
What was written in that book that made you want to reach out and then how did you apply?
[00:05:37] Speaker B: Well, I think the, you know, the initial reason for reaching out is. Gets kind of talked about, you know, as I've kind of navigated my career, I know someday would love to be a president long down the road. And I just. I kind of like to just like football, right? I like to study, and so I study presidents. And I had been hearing a lot about the innovation that was happening here and at Wichita State. And then I come across the book, and I would say it was kismet, right? To come across that to. Again, I remember it vividly, right? I think that was June or July where I had reached out and we were scheduled for a meeting. But the meeting somehow I think maybe got pushed to August, September, something like that. And I was like, yeah, I didn't know anything about a job. I was very happy where I was. But the more I started looking into Wichita State, the more I just went and revisited the book. After we had talked, I just really believed in what was happening.
I talked a lot about this in my interview. Although I did not go to Wichita State, I'm a product of what access can do, and so I wanted to come be a part of that. I just appreciate it and I appreciate even being here now, just how I said this multiple times in my interview. I said this multiple times as people have asked me, why did I come here?
We're not just talking the talk, we're walking the walk, too. And that's something I appreciated. I also appreciate the ability and I got to do this at my last school, but I appreciate being able to do it on a larger scale, to be bold and to rethink the way we do our work. I see myself as someone who wants to do student affairs differently. I want to be an innovator in it. And I think what better place to do that at than Wichita State? So that's what attracted me. I just appreciate that ability to innovate and to really just be in a space of creativity.
I appreciate the opportunity to be able to do that.
[00:07:29] Speaker C: Well, I really appreciated you when you came here to interview, to verify what is written in the book. And then what people were talking about is actually happening. So that's actually, you know, music to my ears. Because a lot of times there is a disconnect and now we're not perfect at all. Not Everybody is totally 100% on board with everything that we're focused on, but at least people know what we're focused on, whether they like it or not.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: I think that's key, too. Right. It ultimately comes down to, like, having a good foundation. And that's ultimately what. That's how it kind of spoke to me, having those correlations between what's in the book and then what's the true reality? And that's ultimately what sold me. Right. It wasn't, again, it wasn't just talking to talking, was walking the walk. And I was seeing that even through the interview process, as an outsider. And so being here, though now, being able to see it, being a part of it, it's even more cool.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: So kind of following along with that, what stands out the most now in terms of what you've seen now with students?
[00:08:31] Speaker B: The student piece that I really appreciate, and this was actually, if I could quote a Sunflower article, it's an editorial from this weekend. I actually screenshotted it, sent it to Bobby Gandu. And so a student wrote about Wichita State being a destination transfer spot for 15 years in a row. And this student editor is a transfer. And so they basically say, I know it's a great spot. I'm experiencing it. And what I loved the most about it was that he said, most places tell students that they can get a job when they're leaving here. Wichita State guarantees it. And what I appreciate about that is a different conversation I was having with a colleague a couple weeks ago is that our students know what they're doing, they know where they're going. And we have so many experiences for them to get that on the job that applied learning, that we talk about training right away. And so I've appreciated really being able to mix with the student body who they know what the end goal is and what they're doing as they create their experience is that they're just attaching all these different tools on their tool belt so that they can be even more great at the work they get to do once they leave us. And so I've really appreciated that.
I think the other thing that I've appreciated just about our community in general, and this is small, and I'm actually waiting to get mine. I've got to get a new tag next week. But just driving around town, seeing all the tags with the Wichita State Wooshock on it there, a sense of pride about Wichita State and in the community. It's pretty cool. And I Take great pride. When I'm out somewhere as a new person, people say what brought you here off my work? And they say well what do you do? I just say work at Wichita South State and they keep pushing and eventually I'll say I'm the vice president. And I take great pride in being able to say that because the community has been very welcoming, it's been warm and our folks, they understand what it is that we need to do and they understand what we're here for. So I've appreciated that.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: That's awesome.
So Student affairs as you know touches on nearly every aspect of the student experience.
How would you describe your leadership philosophy and how does it shape your work with students?
[00:10:40] Speaker B: I'm a very, very much a people centric leader. And so when the first thing that stood out to me about the book was the parallels between student centered innovation driven and my research where I about spoke research secondary trauma and student affairs professionals and how I had come up with this framework of being staff centered and student focused. And I think those align very well. And it's ultimately about taking care of the people who take care of the people. And so for me to be confident that the students are going to have a good experience, that they're truly going to be centered, they're going to be given the best quality of encouragement experience, I've got to make sure that the staff have what they need. And so I really appreciate, you know, as a leader being able to work with teams to help them understand the big picture. I'm a systems thinker and so really focusing in on the parts to whole and helping everyone understand how I need each individual to contribute right to what we're doing because it's larger than us. And as a division of student affairs we've got a responsibility that we're doing what we have to do so that we can contribute to Wichita State as a whole. And so what I try to help people understand and my leadership is along this path is that when a student visitor or staff experience our department, they're not thinking about just our department or division, they're thinking about Wichita State. Right. And so how can we do our parts to make sure that that experience is great for folks all around? So really diving into that people centric approach, I kind of frame my leadership around three step approach. So execution or empathy, Sorry, empathy, alignment and execution.
And so that empathy is really about understanding how it impacts folks. And this could be anything, we could apply it to any given situation, good, bad or ugly. But that empathy is really understanding how People are impacted. That alignment is really figuring out where we need to go, what's the direction we need to be in, and then that execution is taking that direction and making the thing happen and then following up with folks as we need to, but really getting there by going there together. Don't want to work on an island.
Understanding that this comes from our athletics background.
Very team oriented, can have a captain, but everyone's got to do their job. That's ultimately what's going to help us get to where we need to be. So that's my approach.
[00:13:07] Speaker C: I've heard you talk about empathy, and I think that's a really key thing.
Various different times at different fall addresses that I've given.
It's one thing to be sympathetic to someone, but it's yet another thing to be empathetic, to walk in someone else's shoes. I do think that that's really key in connecting to students, making sure that they understand that you really do understand some of the issues that they might be challenged with.
I don't think we do enough of that. I think a lot of times people are, well, I'm sympathetic to what you have going on, but, you know, this is your problem. You need to figure that out.
Times are different today than, well, you're young, but I've been around for a long time.
Student behavior has changed a lot. Their challenges have changed, and we have to look at things differently.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: I'm talking about, you know, we have to. Not only do I have to do that, I think higher education, we can be so rigid, and we have to try to help people understand there's black, there's white, and there's gray, and we control the gray. Right. And so let's be more in the gray space. I also like to approach it from a.
We have to be proactive so that we can be effectively reactive. Because those differences in anything and behaviors and. And the makeup of classes, we know that something might be coming. Right. And so how can we be effectively planning so that when it's time to react, we've kind of put some thought to it.
[00:14:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And so kind of in follow up to that. How do you define student success?
[00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the greatest tenet of student success is also having staff success. So going back to making sure the folks who we're charged with giving our students a good experience have what they need. And then I think we can become more confident in that student success will follow. But ultimately, for me, student success, excuse me, is helping students work through the challenges. And when we hear challenge the word challenge, we think it's naturally bad, it's not always bad, but it's helping them work through those periods of growth, those periods of deficits and at time and then getting them to where they know they can be again. That's one of the things I like about the student body. They're very focused and they know where it is that they want to go. I've not met a lot of undecided students in terms of majors. They know what they're doing, which I appreciate that. And so then how can we specifically in student affairs be complimentary to what they're gaining out of academic affairs and out of their academic experience? And so student success with that, though, is helping them grow, helping them. You know, we're going to challenge them. There's a student development theory about challenge and support and we're going to do that.
And it's not always going to be easy. It should be hard at times, but it's going to be worth it. And I think the greatest testament of student success is when they walk across that stage and get that degree or when that student who's kind of knocked down three times gets up that fourth time and wants to keep trying. And we get to be a part of that. We get to help them figure it out, figure out where they're going, figure out who they want to be. And that's what I appreciate about the work. And ultimately for me, that's student success.
[00:16:23] Speaker C: So you mentioned earlier your athletic background. You were actually an interim athletic director at one of your institutions.
[00:16:30] Speaker B: I was, yeah.
[00:16:32] Speaker C: So. And you just talked about, you know, it's a team approach. And so tell me a little bit more about that and how you bring that in.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so yeah. At my last school, University of Illinois Springfield, I was vice chancellor of student affairs and I had athletics in my portfolio and there's about a nine month period where I serve as the director of athletics.
It was an experience that I knew I wanted to be.
I had coached college football before, but I had never served at an administrator. And I knew if I was going to be the best supervisor I could be to whoever that next director of athletics would be, I needed to do the job. I needed to really understand what came with it, the long nights, the compliances, all those things. And I gained a lot from that. I appreciate my chancellor for affording me that opportunity to do that.
One of the greatest lessons I got out of that though is the victim fact that we have to do it together. And again, I had that appreciation playing college football. But working on it on this side of the seat, it was much different.
I was very fortunate to work with some exceptional leaders in our athletic department there. I hired four or five coaches. I hired a couple administrators while I was there. And so wasn't just keeping the seat warm was really working.
We enacted change and. And we did some good stuff. I had the second highest GPA, 3.56.
We had 18 sports or school history. And so we worked, and my coaches did great. But what I appreciate about all of it, most of our students weren't going pro. And so I really got to bring a perspective that, hey, we want to be excellent on the field, and I certainly don't want to lose, but I also want to make sure they've got what they need outside the classroom. And so I appreciated being able to infuse that. So they were not just going to live their life in what we call the track. They needed to get engaged across campus, and that went for the coaches and the student athletes. So a really cool experience.
I used to want to be a director of athletics, but I've now scratched that itch and I'm good to go.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Well, I mean, athletes, athletics today is so complex. Just craziness of it.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: I spent a lot of my time as president working with the director of athletics, trying to get things done. It's just something changes almost every day. What. What position did you play?
[00:19:00] Speaker B: I was a middle linebacker.
[00:19:01] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah, I figured that.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: Yeah, middle linebacker. It was a lot of fun.
Yeah, a lot of fun. I still feel it some days, though.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah.
So one of the last things I wanted to talk about was, you know, you've been here now for over two months, going on three.
So what have you learned and what are your goals here at Wichita State?
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Again, I've learned I've got a lot of folks that care. And that's really the basis. If you can have people that care, you can do some good stuff with that. Again, that's another thing that I. I learned in athletics.
I've got people who want to be a part of the team, too, which is very helpful. It helps me, really, if you put it in athletics terms, helps me be a head coach because I've got good coordinators, if you will, who can lead their areas, and they want to lead their areas, but I've just got to do some different play calling. And so that leads into the goals for the year. Most important for me is really understanding the shocker experience through the eyes of the students. I've Been able to do that a lot already, but we'll continue to do that more.
As the chief student advocate, it's important for me to understand what they love about it, what they would like to see improve, and then I get to be strategic in how I advocate for that. Sorry for them, but that's goal number one. Really understand that as we talk about goals and the division vision this year, we will embark on a strategic plan later this fall that will unveil next year. But our three goals specifically that we're focusing on is elevating the student experience. Right? We want to make sure that each student really gets to maximize what it means to be a shocker and what it means to really have a good experience.
The second one is being better together. And this is really. This is. If there's anything that's athletic about me, it's this one. It's really helping people understand we have to be better together. We have to work as a team.
If we want to go far, we've got to go together. So really helping our teams understand that. I don't want a bunch of individuals. I don't want a golf team. I want a football team where we can only get one result. We're either going to win or lose together. And I want to win. And so really helping people do that so that better together. And then we want to maximize our impact. We want to have greater impact. And what that really means is that a lot of times, you know, people talk about do more with less. And my message to my team is, let's do less better, right? Let's. Let's not do 50 events, because we've always done 50 events. Let's have 18 good experiences. Let's really be protective of our resources, human resources, our financial resources, physical resources. And so if we could do all those, we're going to elevate the student experience, and we're going to help folks really help our students really make the most of it. So that's what we're focused on this year. And then there'll be other things that pop up that will certainly have to be attentive and responsive to, but that's kind of where we're at.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: Well, I'm looking forward to hearing more about those, the outcomes of those priorities, how that fits into the broader university priorities as we're going forward. So one last thing I wanted to point out is that you like to grill, and maybe we can put some pictures up on the screen here.
Dr. J has his own chef's hat and apron, and is out there grilling. The first week of school, I stopped by, you know, making chicken hamburgers. And so I think we're gonna see some more of that.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: We will.
We will certainly be grilling a lot. I love to do it. Students love food, too, so it's perfect. It'll get them out. But yeah, I love to grill and so we'll certainly have more of those. The Kevin sao, director of athletics and I will do some grilling at some of the athletic events and I'll do some more. We've even talked about maybe coming to grill at the president's residence as well. So you got a grill there that's
[00:23:01] Speaker C: built in outside of the house.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: So we'll definitely be grilling. So yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:04] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Well, I'm really pleased that you're here.
[00:23:07] Speaker C: I'm looking forward to what happens under your leadership and really looking forward to what impact you're going to make on our students.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: It's a pleasure to be here and thank you for talking with me today and for the opportunity to be here.
[00:23:21] Speaker C: Thank you for stopping.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: Thank you. Yes, sir.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: And thanks to our listeners for joining us today. Be sure to rate and share the podcast so others can find it, too. And if you're curious to learn more about Wichita State University, check out my book, which was mentioned earlier, Student Centered and Innovation Driven. A Guide to Transforming Higher Education. It dives deeper into the story of Wichita State's transformation and what it takes to lead meaningful change. Visit Wichita.edu book for more information.
[00:24:00] Speaker D: Sponsorship for the forward together podcast is provided by scott rice officeworks and the shocker store.
Additional thanks to nair amp, wsu carpentry shop and go create.
Produced by caleb johnston, dakota miller, katie pham, matt rascoe, curt ryerson with the help of kaelyn bragg, tim hart, carmen heitsch, sarah tankornellis, tate penner and marcus wright.
