Episode Transcript
[00:00:12] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Forward Together podcast. I'm Rick Muma, president of Wichita State University.
On today's episode, I'm excited to talk about my new book, Student Centered Innovation, a guide to transforming higher education.
This book tells the story of Wichita State's transformation into a model of innovation, applied learning and student success.
And I couldn't think of better guests to join me than three people who are deeply immersed in the university and dedicated to its mission and vision. Dr. Monica Lounsbury, our senior executive vice president and provost, Dr. Shelley Coleman Martins, our vice president for strategic communications and marketing, and Andy Schlapp, vice president for government relations and strategy. Welcome to the show.
Well, hello, everyone.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:00:56] Speaker A: Thanks for joining the podcast. We have lots to talk about, so. So let's get right to it.
When I ask the question, maybe if you tell folks what you do at the university and how long you've been here, but I'm gonna start with Andy.
So you've had a front row seat to many of the things that have happened at the university. What stands out most in terms of the changes that we've made at Wichita State?
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Well, first of all, Andy Schlapp, I'm vice president of strategy and government relations here. I've been here for 18 years. And so it was really at the ground level of when we started talking about the innovation campus. And so, you know, I would say the biggest change we've had during that time was for so many years, this university, I think, was in search of identity and what we should be and what type of university we need to be, and with really little direction of what that could be or should be. So we looked at Harvard, we looked at ku, and we thought, boy, we should be like them. And so we spent a lot of time. I went to school here, graduated in 92, really searching, and I would say, kind of lost for years. And it really was when President Bardo came here and said, we're going to partner with industry, we're going to bring companies here, and we're going to have a place for our graduates to have jobs after they graduate that we really started focusing on something that was revolutionary, different.
And really, I think, looking back now, Wichita State has a definite purpose, a definite vision and mission, and. And we're doing so much more than any other universities are doing in this world. So it's really exciting time to be here.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And just since we're talking about the book, that is one of the central messages in the book is that we're not trying to be something that we aren't. And embrace who we are, embrace our identity, embrace the connection that we have, the community, the applied work, the applied research. So that really, I think, is to me what resonates most about what we've done over the last 10 plus years.
So, Shelley, you and your team helped tell the story Wichita State, actually, you were centrally involved in telling the story of this book. And we so appreciate all the work that you and your team put into that.
In your view, why was it important to share not just what we were doing, but why we were doing it?
[00:03:21] Speaker C: Well, thanks for having me. Shelly Martins. I've been with the university about 10 years. So about the life of the book.
I'm vice president for communications and marketing here at Wichita State. And the why was central to telling this story because it's rooted in values and it united us.
And this was hard work.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: This was.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: This was not an easy process. So it wasn't just about the outcomes.
It was about changing things and being transformational and being rooted in knowing that the risk of not doing something may be greater than the risk of transformation, even though it was difficult. So being grounded in a unified why was critical. We would not have pushed through, I think, if we weren't united as a community, as leadership, in knowing that we were doing the right things for the right reasons.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And so you always remind me in your work, you know, came from the corporate setting and you know, during the transformation, we're still transforming. This, this work never stops.
You're always, oh, that's great, great, Rick. This is how it is if we're going to really make changes. And so can you give a couple examples of what we were doing when you came and what we're doing now that really kind of stand out?
[00:04:55] Speaker C: Sure. Well, I was actually here briefly before my current role, and that was after one of my corporate positions. I was with the Coleman Company and they moved their headquart and I had to lay off my whole team and choose to either move to Colorado or stay here. It was devastating.
And one of the reasons the headquarters decided to move was Wichita as a community was not developing talent and innovation at the speed that that company really needed to be here.
And it really woke me up, lit a fire with me. And I came here briefly and thought, Wichita State doesn't get it. They don't understand what's going on. And then President Bardot came on the scene and I heard him talk and I thought, they're going to be okay.
They're going to be okay. I don't need to be here.
So I left briefly and then had an opportunity to come back and be part of the solution. So things I have seen would be really this student centered approach that we're not doing things that are easier for staff and faculty. We're really positioning the students. So we're asking ourselves, with everything, every form we fill out, do we need this many signatures?
How will this impact the student? And I think centering on is it the right thing to do for the student? Which means can they get their return on investment?
Can they get a job? Are they learning in a way that impacts them like our applied learning?
Does this eventually help local industry, which obviously was very passionate to me, those are the things I have been a part of and those are the things I've seen us do. And I'm very proud to have been a part of it and to keep moving this forward.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And here's a simple thing that always sticks with me.
Our website.
So when you came, our website was really geared toward an internal audience and not focused at all around recruiting students, retaining students. And now it's really kind of a model. It's a very dynamic website. It's for the student.
[00:07:08] Speaker C: It's award winning.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's. Yeah, award winning. And that's what we're trying to do is recruit students, retain students, you know, get students involved and not focused on what we consider some of our back office things, which I saw the website being early on.
So, Monica, how are you doing?
[00:07:31] Speaker D: I'm well, thanks. Rick.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: You're our newest member of the executive team, which gives you a fresh perspective.
When you arrived and began to learn about the university trajectory even before you got here, I had some great conversations with you. What stood out to you about this culture of innovation, transformation, change, really making a difference as a university? What stood out to you and how does that look to you as someone who's joining from the outside? I know you've been at two other institutions that I know that I'm aware of. I think you had earlier time at other institutions, but tell us more about all of that.
[00:08:13] Speaker D: Well, I'm Monica Lounsbury. I'm the senior executive vice president and provost and I have been here since January.
And I think one of the most phenomenal things that I've witnessed is the fast pace of Wichita State.
And that's obviously the case because what you all have accomplished in the last decade is I would think it would take universities many, many, many, many more decades than what it took to accomplish here.
Clearly, the mindset of this book about being innovation driven, student centered, I think is very evident to me. And everything that I've witnessed bore witness to.
But one of the things that I think is, you know, really astonishing about Wichita and Wichita State is that people talk about innovation, but are they really innovative?
And to me, innovation really means that you can, you know, understand the landscape that you're in, the context that you're in, and bring a value proposition to it and solve a problem. And that is the model of Wichita State. And what I really, really love about being here is you're not afraid to say that out loud and you're not afraid to break the mold of what you did yesterday, or you're not interested in necessarily being like someone else, that you're unabashedly excited about being responsive to whatever is needed. And that's a really neat place to be part of for our students because what they have is an institution that is really surveying the land for them and really identifying what the challenges are that we need to think about as we think about them and their success and creating the kinds of programs and the kinds of experiences that will set them on a lifetime of incredibly rewarding experiences. And I love that. I came from a lunch just now talking to our students, and one of the things that people said is, I can't believe the opportunities that I've had here as a student because of the kinds of mindset that this campus has, but the kinds of experiences, that mindset really moves forward to provide students with opportunities to connect with each other, but opportunities to connect with the community, Opportunities to be paid and learn while they're being paid and to have the opportunities to build a resume. It just is an extraordinary place. I'm super happy that I've joined and thanks for hiring me.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, one of the things that I recall often that you say and I think is so true in just higher education, I've worked at two other institutions, and you've worked at three or four other institutions. And kind of the traditional.
It's kind of. To Andy's point earlier, the traditional viewpoint in higher education is that everybody's doing the same thing. It's just sameness, you know, teaching, research and service and.
And I know that you have felt in your past, on occasion, that you've been prevented from thinking in an entrepreneurial way and having that mindset. So talk a little bit more about that.
[00:11:52] Speaker D: I feel unleashed.
Well, you know, I think that there is an extraordinary proclivity in higher education to look over your shoulder or to look. To see an exemplar someplace else to decide if it's something that you can or should do. But I really, I like the entrepreneurial thinking that our campus has and that I found in our leadership in that we need to be responsive to the moment and that it's not that we're not interested in looking to see what's worked elsewhere, but I think we're mostly interested to see what will work here.
And what I think is what will work here will work almost anywhere. And so I feel like I'm at an institution now that wants to drive the future instead of let the future happen to it. And that's a super exciting thing to be part of.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
So, Andy, back to you.
A big part of our success that's been building partnerships with business and industry.
And the book talk. The whole reason the book was written is that 10 year anniversary of the innovation campus. And we really didn't start constructing the innovation campus until two years after we were thought about it. So it's really only an eight year kind of history, which is phenomenal considering what's happened.
Can you share how those partnerships have helped reshape the university?
Give the listener an idea of how those first partnerships came about and what were we doing and thinking and who were we talking to?
[00:13:35] Speaker B: You know, it was a very complicated thing. You know, one of the things that Monica talked about is we're very entrepreneurial and no other university was doing that. And I think one of the big steps we had to realize is that we were. People kept asking us when they thought this was crazy, who else is doing this? Right. And it was from the Wichita community. They were afraid that we were going someplace that nobody else had gone. So. So they needed reassurance in what they thought was a crazy idea that somebody else has done this. And the fact of the matter is, if you start looking around, really nobody's done what we've done. And it's very unique and it's very different. And to have the courage to do that, looking back, you go, boy, we know who we are.
Starting was not the same place. Right. It was extremely difficult. I would tell you that the partnership with business and industry was hard.
And how do you have a conversation who wants to be here? Right? The initial conversation is, hey, you're going to be on a college campus and you're like, oh, I'll be around young students and this will be great. And that's like exciting for like a month maybe. And then it's like, what are we doing? So we had to go out to Companies and prove that we can make a difference to their bottom line.
And so what we would do is say, what problems do you have? How can we help you? And we actually, you know, in the beginning had to offer our services where we would have to pay for it, because companies wouldn't trust that a bunch of students that haven't graduated, don't have a credential, could actually do real work, not a co op, not an internship, but really work for that company.
And so when we went out and said, sure, we'll do that, we discovered that our students actually worked harder and better than other people they contracted with.
They met the time constraints, they met the budgets.
And then a lot of these employers who said, hey, we're not going to hire ended up hiring 60, 70% of them. And the other people who were looking for jobs left because they had experience in the real world.
But really, that's a great story. But there's still got to be a benefit to that company. And the benefit to the company is we could improve their bottom line if they partnered with the Wichita State.
Typically, what happens for a company, you hire somebody new, new graduate, they don't have the skill set for that company, and it takes about two years to become profitable. So when you hire that employee, you pay them less than the competitors are paying because you're going to train them. And as that person goes through their two years of work experience, they realize that the competitors pay more money. So by the time they finish their training, the other companies poach them, which is exactly what these companies want to do. So what we've been able to do is say, look, use our students, have them work for you while they're going to school. Use you, get four, three, two years with that student. You know who you're hiring, if they fit your culture or not. And then what we've discovered is we can shrink that window from the time of hire to them actually making a difference to the bottom line of the company can be six months or less. And I think that's the real secret and key.
You know, today we have over 50 companies on our campus that are working with our students. But it was that first company that had to come here and see if it could work, right? And once that first company came, it was easier to get the.
And so forth.
So really, it was the proof of concept. And some of these companies really had to take a chance. But I think Wichita State really stood up and said, hey, you know what? We're going to show you that we can do this. We'll pay for it in the beginning. And I think that was honestly a lot of the pushback from the community is, where's the money? How are we making money?
And we were like, this isn't about making money. This is about giving our students at Wichita State a better opportunity and a better education than they're going to get anywhere else in the country.
And I think those that have come here and seen that, okay, they're going to be an engineer, just like any engineer, whether you're at Auburn or Arkansas or wherever, we're going to produce engineers. The difference is our engineers have been working for multinational companies for 2, 3, 4 years and leave with a tremendous amount of experience that you're not getting at other universities. And I think that's just the difference of what's happened at the innovation.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: I just want to make a.
You know, one of the reasons for this book, besides the fact that this is the 10th year of the innovation campus, is that we wanted to tell a story that was kind of warts and all of what this took. You know, the challenges that we all faced during that time and continue to face. It's. This isn't easy. And it also, the book provides some guideposts in terms of what you should be thinking, what questions you should be asking. We have people all the time connecting with us, universities, companies, wanting to learn more about our model. And I didn't want to write a book that was just, oh, everything's just wonderful because everybody knows that wouldn't be the case. Any kind of change is difficult. And I also wanted to say one other thing about what you said, Andy. In terms of the applied learning model, what's different, we do have co ops and internships. But what's different about this applied learning model is that we went students, students, the moment they show up on campus, we want them to start connecting with business and industry partners, ones that we have on our campus, the ones that are in the university community because we want them to start professionalizing. And then many of them choose to take different jobs over the course of time, but some of them stay there the entire time and then go to work for them. That is different. That's not something that you see. We even build a facility to help make sure that that happened.
When students came to the university to find out what it took to be a shocker, you know, how to get admitted, what the degree programs were, we also added a new facility where we house our Shocker career accelerator so students could experience what the opportunities are as a freshman, incoming Freshman that opens out onto innovation Campus. And it really paints this story of what Wichita State is and what the opportunities are that we provide to the student.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: And I was just gonna say, you know what, what's unique, when I came here as a graduate student, I became a gta, and the first thing you did is sign a contract and said, we're going to pay you a minimal amount of money. And I was married and one kid and one on the way, and they said, here's how much we're going to pay you. And, oh, by the way, since you're a student, the best thing for you to do is not work. So we're not going to allow you to work outside of the university. You only do this, and you're going to graduate because you have to focus on your studies. And that's what most universities are going to say. Working that gets in the way of a university degree and a credential. I think what we've said is, you know what students are capable of doing both and both matter. Both make a better graduate.
And again, you're just not going to see very many universities that say, hey, when you come to school here, get a job, they're going to say, you need to focus on your studies. And I think that gives too much time for people, and they don't learn to manage their time and do things that I think our program does, which is what's creating the excitement and why, you know, under your tutelage, we've had extreme, you know, enrollment growth for so many years where other schools are not.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Experienced those same things well, and those applied learning experiences, as has been said before, over 12,000 students, almost $40 million that they're earning collectively to help them support their education so they don't have to go get another job and they can apply the skills that they're learning in the classroom.
[00:21:03] Speaker C: I just want to tack on to another thing that makes us different about applied learning. Others that have done applied learning, it's maybe somebody else's problem to lead or program to push.
Maybe it's the career office, but here it starts with the president. I mean, it permeates every aspect of our university. It's very much centralized. It's not just one group or one department's metrics to meet.
It's all of us. It's in our mission. You talk about it all the time. It has appeared not only in our website and our marketing, but in physical spaces and connecting our admissions journey right through the campus to the innovation campus.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: It's woven into the fabric.
[00:21:54] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Definitely. For sure.
All right. So one of the themes of the book is that transformation takes collaboration, grit, old choices. So I'd like to go around the table here and ask each of you what's one lesson from this journey that other universities or really any other organization could take away from some of the lessons that we've learned what we're doing here. Let's start with you, Monica.
[00:22:23] Speaker D: Well, one of the things that I love about Wichita State is it's truly student centered.
Because if we're really not in the interest of the university, then we're going to do everything we can to create an opportunity for learning and success. That is not a proxy.
Degrees are university's proxy for success.
This institution is really about setting students up for real world experiences and helping them connect with those. And not that traditional higher education isn't available to our students here at Wichita State, but for students whom, you know to find personal enrichment during the four years while they're not necessarily working, that's on the cards for a lot of students and it won't be in the future.
And what I really love about what we have done here is that we really put students into direct connection with actual success.
And that I believe that Wichita State University is one of the top institutions in the world that gets students the job of their dreams. And I love that about what we're doing. And I show me another university that's doing that better than Wichita State because I think that's what it means to be student centered and that we're in the best interest of the student and even when it's not in our own best interest.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: And I think probably universities who might be listening to this would say, oh, we're doing that, they might be, but they're not doing it like we are. And I think that all of you have said that you can go to a lot of different universities that have innovation campus, innovation districts, whatever they want to call it, but it doesn't look like ours, it's different.
And it's all about putting the student at the center of all that. That's why we have been successful. You mentioned earlier you came from a lunch. When I became president over four years ago, I knew that I'd be stuck in Morrison hall, the administration building, and not be able to get out and about with students and so started having lunches. We invite students from all different kinds of groups across campus. We've done over 150 lunches. We have to eat. So it's a good time to go and the whole point of that is to make sure students see me. They see the provost, they see the vice president for student affairs. We're interested in what they're doing. We're trying to see what's going on from their mindset and how they're developing through the work that we're done at the university. So that back to the student centeredness, it's just not, you know, words that we put on a piece of paper or put a title of a book. It's in everything that we're doing all the way to having lunches at the president's residence.
And that another purpose of that is, is for students to see themselves in that kind of environment. Who gets to go to the president's residence and have lunch as a student? You know, that that gives students an understanding of what's possible and opens up doors for them and just their thinking.
So, Shelley, what's your thoughts on this last question?
[00:25:36] Speaker C: Well, I'm in communications, so I'm going to go with communications. But I do think being clear in your words and your mission is important from leadership throughout the university.
And I think we've been very good at communicating. You've been very good at communicating and transparent.
And that helps drive alignment and helps with buy in for the vision and the mission.
And I believe this mission and vision has something in it for everyone.
And through the communication, we have these on ramps where everyone can play and everyone can win in this vision. So we definitely.
We have some people that may not believe in this as much as maybe I do, but. But our arms are open and we invite anybody to go on this journey with us. And I do think constantly communicating and communicating to the different groups the way they need to be, the way they need to hear the story they might need to hear, what's in it for them or how they can help.
We're able to tell this story from multiple points of view so that everybody can play.
So I think being strong in your mission alignment and communicate. Communicate, Communicate.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And our priorities are always focused around affordability and access, feeding the talent pipeline and increasing economic prosperity for our community.
And that's all I ever talk about, and I know that's all you all talk about. And this has really helped propel the university forward.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Andy, you know, I think it was our commitment to say we need partnerships. Wichita State can't do this on their own, and partnerships are hard. You can think back to when you're in school and having a working group and how difficult those are and who's really doing the work and who's not working and how do you manage that? Or think about families? I go home all the time and I think I'm the smartest guy in the world and my family kind of puts me in my place. And we do things as a group and those are hard.
The partnerships with the community were extremely difficult. People were not happy with what we were doing and they didn't think this was a good idea. But we committed to partnerships and we wouldn't walk away from partnerships. And I think it was that strong commitment to a not be arrogant enough to think that we can do it on our own. That's fine to say, hey, we do need these partnerships and how do we work together and how do we fight through these difficulties?
Give us a better product. That's the one thing I'm convinced of. All of those difficult times we had forced us to do a better job and we did it because of that. And so to me, and I look at the Wichita Biomedical campus, it's a partnership with another university. Universities don't like partnering with each other. So I think really, at the end of the day, I would say we knew what we wanted to do, we were committed to what we wanted to do, but we knew we couldn't do it alone and we would do whatever we could to maintain those partnerships. And those are hard.
And that's probably what I'm most proud of that we were able to to accomplish.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
Well, I appreciate you all stopping by the podcast and sharing your perspectives on it.
Looking forward to long, continued, long interactions with you all on the team.
You all have played a central role in what we're doing and I appreciate it. And thanks again.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:29:00] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: All right, thanks for joining us today. Be sure to follow, rate and share the podcast so others can find it too. Join me for the next episode of Forward Together podcast as I talk with Wichita State alumnus and leadership consultant Carl Bowden about how his time at WSU shaped his approach to leadership coaching. We'll explore how hands on experiences and a focus on authenticity can help shape the kind of leaders our world needs. And if you're curious to learn more about the ideas we touched on, check out my book, Student Centered Innovation, A Guide to Transformation Transforming Higher Education.
It dives deeper into the story of Wichita State's transformation and what it takes to lead meaningful change. Visit Wichita.edubook for more information, go Shockers.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: Sponsorship for the Forward Together podcast is provided by Scott Rice officeworks and the Shocker Store.
Additional thanks to Nair Amp WSU carpentry shop and gocreate.
